Saturday Open Thread

Ladies and Gentlemen, I haven’t been off Manhattan island in 9 months due to a series of back injuries and other bizarre ailments.  This has meant giving up tickets to Notre Dame in Dublin, Ireland and 50-yard line seats to the Irish drubbing of Miami in Chicago.  So for the first time since this blog started I will be unplugged for the next 24+ hours.

Have at it and play nice.

79 Comments

  1. Posted November 10, 2012 at 7:29 am | Permalink | Reply

    Since the “low turnout” is being mentioned in many threads of evidence for various theories, wanted to make sure people saw this:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/there-are-no-missing-voters

    Turnout wasn’t actually down much (still counting), and was higher in the battleground states than it was in 2008. Half of any small shortfall will be due to the 3 states hit by the hurricane.

    I don’t have any interpretation of this, just noticed that “low everall tournament”, “voters not caring”, etc., was being used in various arguments.

    • Philanthropic_Extortionist
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 11:18 am | Permalink | Reply

      Hey Keith, I created an Excel file on this topic. I wanted to understand voter turnout by state. If you would like to analyze it I could send it over in some type of attachment.
      Bottom line: The swing states experienced the highest voter turnout in relation to the other states. California turnout is the lowest, only at 37%. North Carolina was the highest at 79%. I’m going to try to post by txt file, we’ll see how this goes.

      State Eligible voter turnout Votes cast 2012 Pop. Eligible voters*
      alabama 58.66% 2100000 5000000 3580246.914
      alaska 40.97% 220000 750000 537037.037
      arizona 42.97% 2000000 6500000 4654320.988
      arkansas 46.55% 1000000 3000000 2148148.148
      california 36.75% 10000000 38000000 27209876.54
      colorado 64.46% 2400000 5200000 3723456.79
      conneticut 56.62% 1500000 3700000 2649382.716
      delaware 62.07% 400000 900000 644444.4444
      florida 61.42% 8400000 19100000 13676543.21
      georgia 56.43% 4000000 9900000 7088888.889
      hawaii 43.89% 440000 1400000 1002469.136
      indiana 55.02% 2600000 6600000 4725925.926
      illinois 54.13% 5000000 12900000 9237037.037
      idaho 56.73% 650000 1600000 1145679.012
      iowa 72.08% 1600000 3100000 2219753.086
      kansas 52.97% 1100000 2900000 2076543.21
      kentucky 54.65% 1800000 4600000 3293827.16
      louisiana 60.72% 2000000 4600000 3293827.16
      maine 69.83% 700000 1400000 1002469.136
      maryland 59.18% 2500000 5900000 4224691.358
      mass. 65.60% 3100000 6600000 4725925.926 % of pop.elig. *eligible voters
      minnesota 75.00% 2900000 5400000 3866666.667 0.716049383 3866666.667
      mississippi 55.86% 1200000 3000000 2148148.148
      missouri 62.84% 2700000 6000000 4296296.296
      montana 69.83% 500000 1000000 716049.3827
      nebraska 58.80% 800000 1900000 1360493.827
      nevada 49.88% 1000000 2800000 2004938.272
      new hampshire 72.41% 700000 1350000 966666.6667
      new jersey 53.35% 3400000 8900000 6372839.506
      new mexico 49.88% 750000 2100000 1503703.704
      new york 44.40% 6200000 19500000 13962962.96
      north carolina 79.19% 5500000 9700000 6945679.012
      north dakota 59.85% 300000 700000 501234.5679
      ohio 63.81% 5300000 11600000 8306172.84
      oklahoma 47.78% 1300000 3800000 2720987.654
      oregon 60.88% 1700000 3900000 2792592.593
      pennsylvania 60.63% 5600000 12900000 9237037.037
      rhode island 59.85% 450000 1050000 751851.8519
      south carolina 59.43% 2000000 4700000 3365432.099
      south dakota 55.86% 360000 900000 644444.4444
      tennessee 53.71% 2500000 6500000 4654320.988
      texas 43.30% 8000000 25800000 18474074.07
      utah 43.34% 900000 2900000 2076543.21
      vermont 64.46% 300000 650000 465432.0988
      virginia 63.79% 3700000 8100000 5800000
      washington 53.87% 2700000 7000000 5012345.679
      dc 53.71% 250000 650000 465432.0988
      west virgina 47.78% 650000 1900000 1360493.827
      wisconsin 72.24% 3000000 5800000 4153086.42
      wyoming 55.86% 240000 600000 429629.6296

      Totals
      0.572652148 118410000 304750000 218216049.4

      “All state numbers estimated from wikipedia and politico.
      The numbers are a little off because I’m lazy and I rounded,
      but the general idea is there. All errors should be uniform to all states.”

      *This calculation is done by back calculating MN’s turnout to figure out eligible voter numbers.

      • Philanthropic_Extortionist
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 11:20 am | Permalink

        Well, that didn’t quite format correctly. Oh well, the trained eye will get the general idea.

      • PeterJ
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 11:58 am | Permalink

        google George Mason University and 2008, and you will get a table of turnout for that year for the voting eligible population. No need to extrapolate from MN. I am sure they will do the same for 2012 when the dust settles. You can copy it to a spreadsheet and sort for turnout. CA is very low, and for swing states, so is NV.

        The question for CA, which now as one article says is a one party state with dems having supermajorities in the legislature (which is very small for population size), is what is the demographic makeup of those that don’t vote. If it merely mirrors those who do vote, then any voter registration drives by repubs can easily be countered.

  2. big mac
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:14 am | Permalink | Reply

    7 million missing European-Americans. It was missing.

  3. Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:45 am | Permalink | Reply

    I want to know why no one is talking about voter fraud in Florida. St Lucie County had 150% turn out. Broward County had 99% turn out. Sounds like fraud to me.

    • Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:48 am | Permalink | Reply

      Out of 175,554 registered voters, 247,713 vote cards were cast in St. Lucie County, Florida on Tuesday:

    • exe
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 9:15 am | Permalink | Reply

      Question is how that compares to prior elections. RR lost by 10K in StL county, so I have to believe that some of those “overvotes” went to RR. the 99% in Boward is more hurtful to the RR results and may have tipped the balance. If the turnout was actually 70%, then there were 225K fraudulent votes. If they split in the same way as the actual result, there was a net swing of 80K to Obama. So the net impact is 80-200K votes in a state won by 60K.

      • AG
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

        Is there nothing that can be done about this? I am shocked that this is just kind of ‘accepted’ and then we all just move on. Is there some group that can hold people accountable or even go back and show if a candidate actually won a state that they appeared to lose due to voter fraud?

    • Posted November 10, 2012 at 2:12 pm | Permalink | Reply

      If you look at the results for St. Lucie, there were consistently 124,000+ votes cast for each county-wide position, including president.

      Romney received 56295
      Obama received 66631

      The only number anywhere in the 6 pages report that says anything otherwise is “cards cast”. It’s pretty clearly a reporting error. The total number of votes received by the presidential candidates adds up to 124,000+, just like every other county wide position.

      If you want to make a case for election fraud, find an election that was won by a single state, when the popular vote went for the losing candidate, where the election supervisor was an open supporter of the winning candidate, and the total margin of victory was very small. That’s a gret candidate for election fraud. With a little research, you can probably find a couple recently, and even some extensive documentation by highly reputable journalists on how it was accomplished.

      An election where the losing candidate got 47% of the national vote, lost by over 100 electoral votes, and would need to have successful fraud in 3 major states… not such a good candidate for a consipiracy theory.

      • FabianNightmare
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

        Andrew, you seem to be our resident liberal ideological missionary (:)),this is, or was, the United States of America not Zimbabwe. Such a “reporting error” is unacceptable in our voting mechanism. Not identifying and correcting immediately via a public explanation is a travesty.

        Regarding election fraud, in 1972 the percentage of “non-citizen” (read illegal aliens) was less than 2% of the voting age population, in the last Census Bureau data point, 2004, the percentage is 8.5%. Would you consider it just another right wing “conspiracy theory” to correlate the leftist battle against voter ID laws with the huge percentage increase in illegal aliens vs. voter age population, especially given the overwhelming slant to the democrat party some of these communities have ??

      • Dave
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

        Might I add these are what report. They can REPORT ANYTHING. Bottom line is that if it’s publicly available data, it can’t be trusted..but it’s the best available so knock yourselves out.

      • Posted November 10, 2012 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

        FabianNightmare,

        First, I have no objection to Voter ID laws. They seem reasonable to me. However, the most comprehensive studies that have been done have found that it is an extremely rare occurance. In any given state for any given election, you’re certainly talking less than 100 cases. There are famous anecdotes of voter fraud, but when actually researched, it’s just not a big deal. I think it’s a reasonable opinion to say that the number of perfectly legitimate voters who would be barred from voting for whatever reason due to ID laws (and there shouldn’t be that many) would be much greater than the instances of illegal immigrants voting or people voting twice; I also think it’s a reasonable opinion to say that if you can’t get your sh!t together enough to produce valid ID, you probably shouldn’t be voting anyway. Unless you have credible sources for claiming it’s an actual (rather than philisophical) problem, I just don’t care very much. FWIW I don’t think Democrats object because they want to engage in voter fraud, but rather because they want to make the bar as low as possible for legitimate registered voters who are lazy or unmotivated.

        (I’m also not entirely clear on why voter ID would help with illegal immigrants voting. It seems like the real problem would be how in the world did the person get registered in the first place.)

        In contrast, the flagrant partisan early and provistional voting rules changes in Ohio and Florida should outrage every American patriot. No citizen should need to wait in line for 6 hours to vote. There should never be news broadcasts showing crowds of people chanting “let us vote”. Black voters have a long tradition of voting on the Sunday before the election, going together from Church to the polls; cancelling that day as an early voting day is as egregious an attack on democracy as the poll tax used to be. It’s shameful. And we’re talking an impact on hundreds of thousands of voters, not the 50 or so instances of voter fraud that have been documented in the entire history of Pennsylvania.

        w/r/t the possible reporting error: the report shows the votes for Obama and Romney. I’m not sure where you think the fraud comes in. But the Republican party has lawyers to protest such things, and Florida has paper ballots that can be recounted.

        As I have always said to Democrats who claim that Bush stole two elections: if the Democrats were so incompetent that they allowed it to happen the 2nd time after seeing it happen the first, they don’t deserve to run the country. (I’m not claiming they were stolen; just saying that if the person I’m talking to thinks they were, that’s my response.) If the early voting BS happens again next election, I’ll say the same thing. I think it’s disgusting that it happened in the first place, but again, if you can’t find a way to make sure people have time to vote in four years in the face of partisan opposition, that doesn’t say very much about your ability to get important things done.

        The tragic part of this as far as I’m concerned is that the technology and algorithms exist to insure 100% accurate elections. Using methods similar to private/public key cryptography, it is possible to cast your vote, go home to your computer, input an ID number, and confirm that your vote was properly recorded and counted. This is not a simple database lookup, which could easily be jimmied with; it’s actually a cryptographic transformation that relies on your ID number. I have a friend in Australia that works on this, it’s pretty straightforward. Though again, you need to insure that only valid voters can register in the first place.

      • Posted November 11, 2012 at 12:19 am | Permalink

        Tangentially related to this: I waver back and forth, but I usually shade towards believing that the right to vote should be earned by 2 years of national service. This would include military service, but would include other options that would be useful in national crisis, such as police/fire/rescue etc. If you don’t do the service, you are still a full citizen in all other respects, just without the right to vote. There would need to be some options for the disabled, but that shouldn’t be too hard; there are useful skills that can be exercised at a computer or on the phone.

        There are some serious problems with this model, but I tend to still think it’s a good idea, though as I said I go back and forth in my mind a bit.

      • FabianNightmare
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 12:32 am | Permalink

        Andrew, OK, I am pleased that we seem to agree that it should not be a major exclusionary requirement to need the same document(s) to cash a check or enter an Obama or Romney political rally, a drivers license, since currently states are precluded from offering them to illegal aliens.

        Your comment regarding national service to earn voting right is something I would be in support of, we all need to earn some skin in the game.

        Constructive comments Andrew

      • FabianNightmare
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 12:34 am | Permalink

        Andrew, a drivers license or state issued ID card, as some may not have need for a drivers license, obviously.

      • Dave
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 6:01 am | Permalink

        If it’s electronic it can be messed with. Somewhere in the cryptographic transformation lies an uncrytographic translation algorithim. Get ahold of that and you can jimmie even the most supposedly secure verification methods.

      • Dave
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 6:09 am | Permalink

        “I waver back and forth, but I usually shade towards believing that the right to vote should be earned by 2 years of national service.”

        Not sure what purpose this would serve. Where does the time to do this come in? Before or after college? During your undergrad, masters, phd while you’re going to school, working summers to get experience, and working a job during the school year to make ends meet? Or how about after college, while you work 10 hours a day to raise a family and pay off school debt. Or how about weekends, the only days you actually have to enjoy life and relax. Or maybe we should implement a tax on business to pay for it or the tax payer should foot the bill for this while everyone goes off the serve two years. Those people still have families and have everyone has to eat. The reality is that requiring 2 years of national service or any kind of forced “service” would be far too restrictive, impractical in life, and would not produce a representative sample of the electorate. If the founders of the country wanted that they would have put that in Always amazing how people want to come in and change things to a system that is already working because it’s their idea.

        That said, requiring two years in the country before you can vote sounds decent. But the reality is there would still be fraud at the voter booth.

      • Posted November 11, 2012 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

        Dave,

        It does have its problems, but they aren’t insurmountable.

        Finland has it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Finland
        So does Israel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Israel

        But as I said, it does have problems, so it might not be a good idea. I waver.

      • Posted November 11, 2012 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

        Dave,

        “If it’s electronic it can be messed with. Somewhere in the cryptographic transformation lies an uncrytographic translation algorithim. Get ahold of that and you can jimmie even the most supposedly secure verification methods.”

        No, that’s the entire point of cryptography. The algorithm is always known. It’s publicly available. That’s one of the required properties of cryptographic systems: knowing the algorithm doesn’t allow you to decode anything. Because the private key is only stored on a physical ticket given to the voter after he votes, and is unique per voter, a potential attacker can’t hack the system to get it.

  4. Posted November 10, 2012 at 9:00 am | Permalink | Reply

    It wasn’t just Project ORCA that failed…….I live in Rhode Island and I contacted the Romney campaign headquarters in Ohio to see if I could do some phone bank work for them. The woman on the phone seemed very knowledgeable and she directed me to a website to signup as a volunteer. She said after setting up my login information I could then login and start making calls with a script that was on the website, or select the AUTOMATED reply so that when the caller answered, by simply clicking option 1 the automated script would begin.

    In reality this is what occurred. I wanted to use the AUTOMATED script option because I’m not the best talking smoothly under pressure and didn’t want to screw things up. However after attempting the AUTOMATED script about 8-10 times………it NEVER worked !!!!! I would make contact with someone, or try to leave the script on their voicemail, and EVERY single time I pressed the script button on the website, nothing happened………..DEAD AIR……..

    So I gave up on that and just figured I would speak with the callers………..however in about 6-8 days I made about 150 calls…………ALL the calls were directed to Florida numbers. I figured they had some concerns in Florida because NO phone numbers were in Ohio. However of the roughly 150 calls, I only spoke with about 10 people………..at least HALF of the phone numbers were disconnect phones. I have NO IDEA where they got their database of phone numbers from but it was a tremendous waste of time for the most part and I’m thinking of how much time were other callers wasting when we could have been contacting potential
    voters.

    The overall impression of the phone contact online system was that it was in need of serious help, especially getting VALID phone numbers and getting the
    AUTOMATED SCRIPT to actually work.

  5. exe
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 9:17 am | Permalink | Reply

    Keith, hope all is well. Your performance in the election’s 4th quarter here with all the external factors was exemplary.

  6. Angelina Joseph
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 12:24 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Obama wins 71 percent of Latino vote. Every month, 50,000 Hispanics turn 18 years old. That’s 600,000 Hispanic youth every year.

    • Barf
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Permalink | Reply

      I don’t think the GOP will ever win the presidency again. However, the House will be solid GOP for 10 years or more.

      I would pass the dream act but say NO to amnesty.

      • C-Bus GOP
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

        BS! Sick of hearing this defeatist garbage!!!!

        A close loss to an incumbent with a powerful ground game operation, and you’re ready to capitulate to the Dems?

        The day the GOP panders to ANYONE is the day the party is dead.

        But it is not dead. All the thousands at the rallies – that was real. That doesn’t mean nothing. It means something.

        We didn’t lose because of Hispanics. We were beaten for the following reasons:

        1. Ground game. The GOP must sell its message at the grassroots level starting NOW. The Dems cleaned us here. Team Romney did a poor job with this.

        2. Women left us at the last hour. Obama hit us with a bunch of anti-women stuff and Romney never hit back. He won the Argument on the economy but focused on this too narrowly. Akin and Mourdock limited Romney’s ability to counterattack too.

        3. Rubio would have been a more effective vp candidate.

        We will expand our numbers in the house and retake the senate in 2014.

        And with the old guard flushed out of the party we will retake the executive branch in 2016. We need to be better and smarter campaigners. We have a great message we need to package and deliver it better. This is how you win, not with more ads on tv.

        And dear god no more talking about rape!!!!

      • Angelina Joseph
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

        “And dear god no more talking about rape!!!!” Amen. Let us not give up.

        Candidate 40 % ; Campaining 60 %. Even baffoon biden can win with a nasty campaign.

      • Dave
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

        “We were beaten for the following reasons:”

        Don’t forget the Obama-Christie love fest…that one will go down as one for record books

    • Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:05 pm | Permalink | Reply

      C-Bus, I agree 100%. I am sick of the defeatist attitude regarding Hispanics. People try to point a giant finger at one thing and a lot of things actually caused the defeat, which was hardly a landslide, Obama is now the only incumbent President in history to ever win re-election by less than he won his election by. Also, am I the only one aware of the fact that there are only 4 Hispanic governors in the US, all of which are Republican? Voter fraud as discussed above is also a very real possibility but everyone seems to be shrugging it off.
      ~ Brittany

  7. Bob San Diego
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 12:39 pm | Permalink | Reply

    California turnout was low because obviously a) the presidential race wasn’t going to be close here and b) the Senate race was a joke as well.

    At least we voted to raise taxes though. Awesome.

    • PeterJ
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Well the benefit of dems controlling everything now by supermajority in CA is that they can get all the credit or all the blame. No more blaming repubs for being obstructionist. As for taxes, just wait til they try to repeal the property tax limits since the legislature can now put props directly on the ballot.

      Re turnout and registration, as I asked above, what is the makeup of the 40% who are not registered? Just another large pool of potential dems or is there room for repubs to make meaningful headway in registration?

      • Marshmallow Candidate
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

        They can just pretend that the Republican obstructionist tendencies did so much damage that it will take a lot of time to “fix” the economy.

    • Dave
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:45 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Brown’s tax increase was rigged. He knew good n well well he could push that through and that’s why he even offered to take it to the electorate. The way they won it with a large number of Yes votes coming from just a few counties in the SF area, late in the evening, when they realized that it would otherwise fail speaks volumes about their methods. With the unions poised to get a chunck of that cash, did you think they were really just going to let the chips fall were they may…really??

    • fab4gal
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:09 pm | Permalink | Reply

      I have several friends in California and the conservatives I know feel like there is no point in them even voting since it always goes blue (save for Reagan’s re-election). Knowing this, I don’t think it’s much of a leap that a lot of Republicans don’t vote and maybe don’t even register to vote in CA, after all why bother if you feel your vote won’t matter. I’m leaning more and more towards getting rid of the electoral college because of this.
      ~ Brittany

  8. zang
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Permalink | Reply

    The republicans are in a very bad position in CA. Traditionally, they were outnumbered by Dems, but a large number of Dems were Reagan Dems who would crossover. Now, they’re voting straight party line down the ballot. And the non affiliated by party voters are splitting evenly.

    Schwarzenegger had a chance to revive the GOP, but he seemed to have no interest in advancing anything but himself.

  9. Dabrisha
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Keith — Done with politics; America is past the “tipping point” of takes versus givers, and the dream is over.

    Just wanted to say that the Irish are going to get upset in the Coliseum next week against the (somewhat ) mighty Trojans. Always my favorite game of the year. Fight On!

    • C-Bus GOP
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 2:46 pm | Permalink | Reply

      See post above. We are not dead.

      If we have a Hispanic problem, then the Dems have a Caucasian problem. And women are back and forth. No one can bank on women

    • fab4gal
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Dabrisha – I’m sorry you’ve given up. But I haven’t. 🙂
      ~ Brittany

  10. Angelina Joseph
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Permalink | Reply

    My muslim friend who voted for Obama in 2008 did not vote for either candidate in 2012. Her advice to Repubs; stay away from abortion issue . “Majority of the abortions are done by black women. Would you rather have the babies born, turn into democrats and be burden to the society.? ” Crude but true.

    • PeterJ
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Crude is a cute term for racist here, and I don’t use that word much. The point about opposition to abortion is not the outcomes ethnically, but the fact that every baby, whether white/black/asian/whatever is in fact a human person to be respected.

      • Angelina Joseph
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

        PeterJ, you have a good heart ! 🙂

      • Angelina Joseph
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

        You proved republicans are compassionate. Why the left won’t see that ?

      • fab4gal
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

        Agreed, PeterJ. I always find it interesting that Republicans are considered “heartless” when we oppose outright murder of innocent babies. Anyone else see the irony?
        ~ Brittany

    • Dave
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Permalink | Reply

      If the views on abortion of some GOP members are keeping women from voting GOP then the GOP’s mission is clear. Cells, zygotes, and in later stages of gestation, babies can’t vote, adult women can. Romney’s position on that was reasonable and basically echoed congress’s point of view, from what I understood, even though the dems wanted to scare people into believing it wasn’t.

    • Dave
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Becuase it’s about which side of the compassion vote you’re on…favoring the living or favoring the new born (and unborn in early stages.). Nature, if left to its own devices, favors the living over the newborn and unborn. That’s the basis we start with. Everything to prevent nature’s position, can be seen as a religious or moral value and we’re supposed to have the freedom to choose what religious values we choose to live our lives by. Pro-choice women feel they should have that right as they would in nature, anti-abortion types do not. From a vote perspective, you know which one is probably more valuable. And really, the christian-right’s attempt to control abortion that way, can be seen as an attack on female sexuality to conform to a specific expected behavior…when really for some women (most women probably as it has been historically), giving sex is just the way they control things in life. it’s the power nature has given them.

      • fab4gal
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

        Dave, I completely disagree and in fact am insulted by your statements. There are so many ways to PREVENT pregnancy it’s almost a joke. Condoms are not expensive, nor are they hard to get, you can buy them in any gas station or grocery store. Your post makes it sound like we women are just so stupid we cannot manage to prevent pregnancy in the first place and therefore abortion is our only option.
        ~ Brittany

      • Miss. Plonky
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

        But if they get FREE contraceptives then there Need never be one elective abortion.

        BYW I live in a Socialized health system & contraception is not free or covered.

      • Miss. Plonky
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

        Not covered by private insurance .

      • Dave
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 4:27 am | Permalink

        “and in fact am insulted”

        Well don’t be offended. As with the tax disussion, a dose of open mindedness here really helps. Prevention is far better than abortion physically. Morally we can get into that discussion but that’s something each individual should decide. I can’t imagine most women wanting to have an abortion though some women and men may be careless with prevention and pregnancies happen. Irresponsbility unfortunately is a side effect from legislation aimed at a large population. But those who use it that way are the minority. There are other reaons why unwanted pregnancies occurr. Some women may not want to use the pill for health concerns. There are potential serious health issues when messing around with your hormones. Regardless, bc sceinece is not perfect and there’s a lot that can go wrong, with even with the best of intentions, that lead to unwanted pregnancies. Early stage abortion then is the only option left.

        Forcing an unwanted pregnancy these days can have dire consequnces. Nature allows women to concieve well into their 40’s though just the act of birth at that age can jeprodize the life of the mother. Going through pregnancy at any age is a major undertaking, and typically expensive compared to the cost of an abortion. Given the expanded role of women (above and beyond what nature asks of them) early stage abortion supports a womens freedom in that respect. All reasons why a women would want the choice to choose.

        So again, it’s which side of the compassion spectrum you come down on. The side of the voter (mother) or the fetus. I know which side nature advocates and which side produces the most votes. Both sides can claim the compassion mantle.

      • Miss. Plonky
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 6:10 am | Permalink

        Dave is obsessed with abortions,

        Highly creepy.

      • Dave
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 6:17 am | Permalink

        “with abortions,”

        LOL. Yup, muaahhhh. LOL. Get real.

  11. Kevin Paradine
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I got my thank you mail from the Romney campaign today. At least they did that.

    • Dave
      Posted November 11, 2012 at 5:46 am | Permalink | Reply

      Same here. They must have heard the chatter. LOL. It was a nice letter.

  12. sr
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 6:00 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I immigrated from India and I can tell you that my biggest concern is tat the democratic system her is becoming like India. Indian politicians separate Indians in to groups and subgroups (castes, muslims etc), under a broader rubric of minorities to the point where minorities have more power than the majority. with groups, its very easy to buy votes by pandering and that is exactly what Obama has done. I have no idea how to counter this thing.

    • Angelina Joseph
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 7:24 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Me too – from India! When we lost the 2008 election, my co-worker comforted me saying , “The American Eagle needs the Left and the Right wing!”. So, let us wait patiently for our turn!

      • fab4gal
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

        We had the Presidency, House, AND Senate in 2004. The Democrats were beside themselves. Right now Republicans still have control over the house. Parties switch back and forth, as they should. We may take back the Senate in 2014. Everyone please take their heads out of the oven, the world has not ended. 😉
        ~ Brittany

      • jmar
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

        AMEN, Brittany!

  13. Bunker It Up
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 7:00 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I can not help thinking of how America took the Blue Pill on election day. “You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. The Matrix is a system. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.” [ Think about it.] Welcome to the Matrix 2012 of Obama.

  14. AG
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Has anybody seen this? I think it’s worth signing the petition, even if it doesn’t change anything. At least it’s part of a movement to make people more accountable during elections when it comes to voting. I don’t know how many people follow this website, but I feel strongly that if we all forwarded this to a few people or post it on facebook/twitter, we could make a difference.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/recount-election/ZQmy0Mlv#thank-you=p

    • fab4gal
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:21 pm | Permalink | Reply

      I’m making an account now so I can sign this. This is particularly frightening: “In one county alone in Ohio, which was a battleground state, President Obama received 106,258 votes…but there were only 98,213 eligible voters. It’s not humanly possible to get 108% of the vote!” How can we let things like this, and Libya, just get swept under the rug?
      ~ Brittany

    • PeterJ
      Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:31 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Where is the proof for something like this accusation? It would be easy to use outdated registration figures, or to include provisional ballots which were later challenged and not counted. If this were actually true, it is not something that would go without challenge and it would be on the front page of Drudge. And it would be a lot easier to have corrupt poll workers who allow individuals to vote multiple times in the names of other legitimately registered voters who were not likely to show.

      • AG
        Posted November 10, 2012 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

        PeterJ, I agree, voter fraud numbers are hard to prove outright at this point, although I do think that there are various numbers coming out, as well as known numbers before the election that point to election fraud. Each voting cycle, this is an issue and I think it needs to be made an issue until we can have a more efficient system that allows for better book keeping when it comes to elections (ie voter id or some other measure). I realize it’s a long shot and that voter recounts typically come from the states and not the federal level, however, I do think it sends a message that voters care about this system.

        If this helps at all, here is an article simply combining the information (although, admittedly, they do talk about how Obama won states like Hawaii which have no voter identification laws…but obviously, it wouldn’t matter what kinds of laws you passed, Hawaii is a blue state, end of story). There are also numerous links at the end of the article that talk about more anecdotal evidence for voter fraud. You don’t have to sign the petition or agree with it, my point is simply that it’s an issue that I think deserves the notice of the the American people and especially the Whitehouse.

        http://www.examiner.com/article/citing-voter-fraud-petition-at-white-house-web-site-demands-recount-of-election

    • Dave
      Posted November 11, 2012 at 5:49 am | Permalink | Reply

      Busloads of (unregistered) somalians…

  15. Bob San Diego
    Posted November 10, 2012 at 10:45 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Dick Morris …

    http://www.dickmorris.com/the-campaign-made-no-difference/

    • Dave
      Posted November 11, 2012 at 5:51 am | Permalink | Reply

      “Television is losing its impact. Particularly in the presidential race, it is astonishing that the almost one billion dollars spent advertising in eight states did very little to move the vote share.”

      TV is not losing its impact, just which segment is slowing. The influence of the nightly news is growing.

  16. jvnvch
    Posted November 11, 2012 at 2:48 am | Permalink | Reply

    I wonder if someday we’ll learn why Romney didn’t choose Marco Rubio for VP. I thought that was what he would do, for obvious reasons. I was just thinking what a different VP debate there would have been, or if it wouldn’t have been different, how Biden’s disrespect would have turned off Hispanics nationwide.

    • FabianNightmare
      Posted November 11, 2012 at 10:30 am | Permalink | Reply

      I was waiting to see if Rubio was picked if those of us who believe that the requirement of “Natural Born citizen”, which in my understanding of the phrase means born of two parents who were citizens, would object to Rubio. One can’t let Rubio pass while objecting to Obama. This needs to be addressed by congress. There were too many grey area’s with Obama’s past to ever let this occur again. Congress should clarify and strengthen the filing requirements for presidential and vp candidates.

      • jvnvch
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

        The Democrats could hardly have used that issue against Rubio, and the Republicans would have been foolish to do so, even if it’s a legitimate issue.

    • PeterJ
      Posted November 11, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Not a big Latino vote in the upper midwest like Wisconsin and Iowa. And Rubio does not actually pull big support outside of Cuban-Americans. Plus since part of the argument against Obama the first time was that he was a one-term senator and thus without much experience, the same could be leveled at Rubio even though he would only be the VP. It is just a cycle or two early for Rubio, and he needs to show he can pull Latino support outside of the Cuban community in south FL.

      • jvnvch
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

        The Republicans lost Wisconsin and Iowa without Rubio. I think they would unquestionably have won Florida with him, and would have increased their chances of winning several other states, including Colorado, Nevada, even New Mexico, Virginia, and Ohio, and possibly others.

      • jvnvch
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

        Also, the Democrats would have looked silly if they dared to take the position that Rubio is unqualified to be VP because he’s a one-term senator without much experience.

  17. korak Tongani
    Posted November 11, 2012 at 3:19 am | Permalink | Reply

    I was right about one thing…no more Benghazi…we’ll it never really existed. Every vote for Obama confirmed
    this…Why if you have Economically challenged perceptions would you believe that Black is Black, and White
    is White? Riddle, hardly..Benghazi only existed on one station FOX. IF THIS WAS A REPUBLICAN THE MAN
    WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPEACHED IN LESS THAN 24 HOURS. Every station would have carried it ad nauseum.
    SO, I implode after the election…Instead of searching hundreds of websites DAILY…I take four days off…BUT Benghazi
    is not an issue…We’ll take the obvious…If you mention Benghazi now you must have sour grapes, you are of course
    upset over the election..Like porn you know a real conspiracy when you see it. Consider a felonious act that according
    to the media never occurred.

    • Miss. Plonky
      Posted November 11, 2012 at 6:20 am | Permalink | Reply

      blood in the toilets , Pattterns like anal rape ,

      • Dave
        Posted November 11, 2012 at 6:21 am | Permalink

        “blood…pattterns like anal rape ,”

        Nice sentiments from this poster…/sarc

  18. Posted November 11, 2012 at 2:40 pm | Permalink | Reply

    You can thank the Democrats!

    Obama and the Democrats were hugely successful in tarnishing the brand of Republicans the last four years by blaming President Bush for damaging the economy so badly that Obama just could not fix it rapidly. It worked simply because there was the ring of some truth in it and the Democrats never tired of repeating the same mantra over and over and over again. Obama also damaged Governor Romney’s image so badly over Bain Capital in Ohio that no positive ads could fix the damage.

    Negative ads work. And once a candidate or party label is deeply damaged recovery is very difficult.

    Thus I propose that beginning right now and over the next four years the RNC and Super Pacs should run short fifteen second ads weekly or monthly on radio and TV “thanking” the Democrats for something they have done that is a “no brainer” for negatively impacting the voters.

    For example, run an ad that says: If you are upset at having to add a form of personal health information to your tax forms now because of Obamacare regulations, “You can thank the Democrats!”

    Or, run an ad that says: If you just got laid off by your employer or got reduced to part time work because of the impact of Obamacare on his business, “You can thank the Democrats!”

    Or, run an ad that says: If you just got pushed out of your Medicare Advantage insurance and forced into an Insurance Exchange, after Obama promised that “You can keep the insurance you have now,” “You can thank the Democrats!”

    Or, run an ad that says: If you just got forced to buy health insurance you don’t think you need or can afford, because Obamacare will fine you if you don’t do it, “You can thank the Democrats!”

    Or, run an ad that says: If treaty x,y, or z just got forced through the US Senate taking away gun rights or national sovereignty of America, “You can thank the Democrats!”

    Or run an ad that says: If your gasoline now costs you $5 a gallon because Obama won’t let us drill for domestic oil, “You can thank the Democrats!”

    Running these self-evidently true single-issue short ads constantly for the next four years will so damage the Democrat brand that in any race with any candidate, the Democrat brand name will be an anchor of doom to their candidacies even before the candidates themselves are selected! The content can keep changing as new issues arise, but constantly hammering at the responsibility of the Democrats for bad things happening is the key to damaging their party label. We must not wait again for four years to “invent” a new campaign for new candidates. The Democrat brand needs to be permanently damaged, since solely by moving many Democrats to the Republican ranks will assure our electoral success in the future.

    You can thank the Democrats!

  19. SpiritOF1776
    Posted November 11, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Bush did not ruin the economy, The democraps have been in charge of the House and Senate since 2006 until 2010 when the GOP won the House. George Bush failed in signing all of their legislation that and letting people buy houses who could not afford it. He did this in exchange for war funding. Obama is Bush on steroids. We will not recover from this but sustain major damage if not outright financial collapse in 2014.

  20. SpiritOF1776
    Posted November 11, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Bill Clinton runs his mouth incessantly. Where was GWB to set the record straight? He could have done that and probably limited a lot of damage. Shame on him. Where is he?

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